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Thorvald 
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 23-April-2004
Sted: Denmark
Status: Offline
Point: 7981
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 Emne: Ny computer - ikke meget bedre OpenGL performance.
Sendt: 18-Maj-2011 kl. 12:46 |
Hej. Nu er jeg jo så ved at være færdig med at installere min nye computer samt sætte den op med eksternt tastatur, mus og skærm. Computeren er denne Asus G73SW. Med et godt Nvidia grafikkort, 16 GB ram osv., havde jeg forventet at jeg uden problemer kunne vise en af mine større husmodeller i mit tegneprograms OpenGL 3D visning. Denne model havde jeg problemer med på min gamle computer, at vise hele modellen af. Men jeg ville have troet at jeg kunne klare hele den komplette model på min nye computer - men nej tilsyneladende ikke. Er der noget jeg har glemt at gøre (eller ikke vidste), for at forbedre ydelsen ved OpenGL???
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Med de venligste hilsener
Thorvald.
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Pony65
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 20-September-2008
Sted: Silkeborg
Status: Offline
Point: 1845
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Sendt: 18-Maj-2011 kl. 14:31 |
Opdater driver til dit grafikkort Det er ellers noget af en bærbar du har anskaffet dig
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Jakabov
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 06-Februar-2008
Sted: Vodskov
Status: Offline
Point: 1330
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Sendt: 18-Maj-2011 kl. 14:51 |
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Kunne forestille mig at det har noget med Nvidia Optimus at gøre, at den måske bruger chipsettets onboard grafik istedet for det dedikerede grafikkort.
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Thorvald
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 23-April-2004
Sted: Denmark
Status: Offline
Point: 7981
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Sendt: 18-Maj-2011 kl. 14:59 |
 Pony65 skrev:
Opdater driver til dit grafikkort Det er ellers noget af en bærbar du har anskaffet dig |
Lyder som noget jeg skal kigge på.
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Med de venligste hilsener
Thorvald.
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Thorvald
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 23-April-2004
Sted: Denmark
Status: Offline
Point: 7981
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Sendt: 18-Maj-2011 kl. 15:00 |
Jakabov skrev:
Kunne forestille mig at det har noget med Nvidia Optimus at gøre, at den måske bruger chipsettets onboard grafik istedet for det dedikerede grafikkort. |
Måske, men den er sat til "high performance" ud af de 4 standard opsætninger der er. Og jeg ville ikke umiddelbart tro at den brugte onboard grafikken i "high performance". Men værd at kigge på alligevel.
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Med de venligste hilsener
Thorvald.
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Thorvald
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 23-April-2004
Sted: Denmark
Status: Offline
Point: 7981
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Sendt: 18-Maj-2011 kl. 15:42 |
Pony65 skrev:
... Det er ellers noget af en bærbar du har anskaffet dig |
Tja, men det er jo med at bruge den bonus man får af firmaet på fornuftig vis...   Og firmaet får jo også noget tilbage ved at jeg har noget godt udstyr at arbejde med.
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Med de venligste hilsener
Thorvald.
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Thorvald
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 23-April-2004
Sted: Denmark
Status: Offline
Point: 7981
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Sendt: 19-Maj-2011 kl. 23:05 |
Nå - har haft lidt korrespondance med Dietrichs (det hedder det 3D tegneprogram jeg arbejder med). Det viser sig at det ikke nødvendigvis er hardwaren der ikke har kræfter nok, men - som jeg umiddelbart ser det - programmet, der ikke udnytter hardwaren fuldt ud. Her er et svar fra forummet og den efterfølgene e-mail korrespondance: I do not know if our program uses PhysX.
The program runs on Windows 7 64 bit but each single program just uses maximum 2Gb of Ram.
If you are in OpenGl not the main Ram is important but the Ram of the grafic card.
Could you send us the project which makes problems in OpenGl? ------- Dear Florian.
Really? :-) I didn't think that there was such a thing as a too
big model for Dietrichs. :-) I guess this is some kind of
Dietrichs problem and not really a hardware problem - because my
new computer should be more than powerful enough to handle this
model, in my opnion. Maybe Dietrichs should be better optimized to
use as much as possible of the computers power - Ram, processor,
GPU and GPU-ram. Of course this model contains a lot of items and
it is a quite big house, but still. I am not sure what you are
thinking about when you talk about a " large number of small tubes has the same
object-type and MOS-number than other wall parts".
Even with smaller models (that are still a little big), that I can
view on my old computer, I don't get a fluent 3D experience with
on the new computer. So I think Dietrichs needs to move forward
and develop the software to be able to handle bigger and more
complex models and take better advantage of today's high end
computers. Dietrichs is a too expensive piece of software to not
be able to handle big and complex building models. How did they
make Taipai 101 or the even higher tower in Dubai - I just wonder?
Of course that doesn't help me, if I don't upgrade my current
Dietrichs version. Unless that development can be installed on
older versions of Dietrichs.
Best regards, Thorvald.
Dietrich's Support skrev, Den 19-05-2011 15:17:
Dear Mr. Pedersen,
The problem with the position you
sent is, that it contains to many parts.
That is a problem not only with
OpenGL but also with rotating or zooming the building or
using the filter-function in DICAM.
What makes things more complicated
is, that e.g. the large number of small tubes has the same
object-type and MOS-number than other wall parts. That makes
it impossible to switch them off in display stile without
switching off other important parts as well. The only way to
switch off “unimportant” parts is to filter them by item#.
The only way to get this position
handeled is to reduce it in some way. When everything is
visualized and switched on, it is in this case to much for
display.
We remain at your disposal for any further information.
Kind regards,
Florian Strauß
Dietrich’s AG
3D CAD/CAM for timber construction
-+ please also visit our web forum: http://user.dietrichs.com
-+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-
Dietrich's AG - 3D-CAD/CAM für den Holzbau
Postfach 13 42 * 85573 Neubiberg/München
Tel. +49-89-61 44 21-30 * Fax
+49-89-61 44 21-25
mailto:hotline@dietrichs.com* http://www.dietrichs.com
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Adolf
Dressler
Vorstandsvorsitzender: Dipl. Ing. Uwe Emmer
HRB 127 508 * Ust-Id.Nr. DE 174 827 894
Zuständiges Amtsgericht: München
Von: Thorvald Johannes Pedersen
[mailto:tjp@jofa-lt.dk]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. Mai 2011 10:35
An: Dietrich's Support
Betreff: New computer - not much better OpenGL
performance.
Hi.
I have here attached the model position, that I can't open in
OpenGL. |
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Med de venligste hilsener
Thorvald.
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claus_jac
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 06-August-2008
Sted: Denmark
Status: Offline
Point: 5570
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Sendt: 20-Maj-2011 kl. 22:52 |
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hej Thorvald - jeg må blankt erkende at det lugter meget af endnu en sag af spaghettiprogrammører der ikke er i stand til at lave en ordentlig implementering. men jeg er nu alligevel lidt nysgerrig omkring de "tubes" :-) hvordan har du lavet dem? En af de mere interessante aspekter ved repetitive strukturer er at de fleste applikationer i dag understøtter "instansing" altså man har en grundinstans og derefter blot kopier af denne - som så kan være modificeret på en eller anden måde. Det bruges blandt andet i maya, 3dsmax, autocad og diverse andre 3D apps- hvilket betyder den rent teknisk ikke skal have nær så mange data til behandling men derimod kun gå ud fra en grundstruktur med individuelle modifikationer. Det er blandt andet derfor maya i dag er i stand til at håndtere hundredetusindvis af repetitive objekter. noget de rent faktisk også havde problemer med indtil før ringenes herre (weta var faktisk med til at udvikle den metode! :-) )
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Thorvald
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 23-April-2004
Sted: Denmark
Status: Offline
Point: 7981
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Sendt: 21-Maj-2011 kl. 10:04 |
Dietrichs 3D programmet er det mest lækre 3D bygnings program, jeg har prøvet. Jeg ville ikke skifte til noget andet 3D program - og da slet ikke til AutoCad. Men selvfølgelig skal de også udvikle sig og følge med tiden. De udvikler på selve programmet - altså funktionerne - men de må jo også udvikle på motoren bagved, så den endnu bedre kan udnytte nutidens computerkraft. Jeg er heller ikke helt sikker på, hvad han mener med "tubes". Men måske er det objekter der skal forestille at være runde i virkeligheden (men som i 3D software jo modelleres som fler-kantede objekter). F.eks. stykker af armerings jern, der bruges til at forbinde beton elementer - f.eks. væg/dæk forbindelse. Eller kanalerne i huldæk. Programmet er udviklet til træbyggeri, men jeg bruger det også til beton elementer og stål. Det er jo bare et spørgsmål om at definere materialer i materialedatabasen. Om selve træ stykkerne også er "tubes" (bare fir-kantede) i denne forbindelse ved jeg ikke. - Men det er da klart, at der vil være et enormt antal af træstykker i et 3½ etagers træhus (plus parkeringskælder i beton) - med ialt 21 lejligheder. Jeg vil helt sikkert forfølge dette - for det kan jo være at de har været så optagede af at udvikle på selve funktionerne, at de har glemt at tænke på performance i forhold til computerkraft. Jeg forstår ikke helt hvad instansing er, men det kan være at jeg kommer til det efterhånden. |
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Med de venligste hilsener
Thorvald.
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Thorvald
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 23-April-2004
Sted: Denmark
Status: Offline
Point: 7981
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Sendt: 21-Maj-2011 kl. 12:48 |
Herunder en ny mail jeg skrev til Dietrichs: Dear Dietrichs.
With what I am saying I don't want to offend Dietrichs. As I like the
Dietrichs software very much and as I think it is one of the better 3D
software packages available and I think the best among those I have
actually tried.
So what am I trying to say? Well I am trying to help Dietrichs in
the right direction. If Dietrichs should remain one of the best 3D
software packages available, it needs to follow the tendencies in the
construction world and in the digital world. I know that you are
developing the software - i.e. it's functions and how these functions
are set up. I can see that when I read on the webpage or in the forum.
You have and are developing the statics program, you have included
U-value and heatloss calculations and so on in the newer versions. I am
still on version 7.03, so I don't know the newer versions first hand.
That I am still on version 7 comes down to that the software have been
too expensive to upgrade during the last few years, where the industry
haven't been optimal. We have simply had higher priority on other
things.
But what I am trying to say is, that it is not enough to develop on the
functionallity of the program it self. For me it seems like the core or
engine of the program develops slower than the hardware that we are
using the program on. Even with version 7, I would expect a fluent 3D
experience even with a relative big 21 apartment building, with 3½
wooden construction floors above the underground parking made with
concrete elements.
So maybe it is time for Dietrichs, to develop the software in the
direction of taking better advantage of today's fast and high capacity
computers.
I am still not sure what you are
thinking about when you talk about a "large number of small tubes has the same
object-type and MOS-number than other wall parts".
I will try to translate something that someone said on another debate forum:
"One of the more interesting aspects with repetetive structures is that
the most of today's applications support "instansing", meaning that one
has a basic instans and hereafter just copies of this one - that can then
be modified somehow. This is among others used in Maya, 3DsMax, AutoCad
and other 3D applications. This means that it technically does not need
to work with as much data, but it can take basis in a basic structure
with individual modifications. That is why Maya today can handle
hundreds of thousands of repetetive objects. This was something they
actually also had problems with untill before "The Lord of the Rings"
(Weta was actually taking part in developing this method)."
I don't know if this makes sence. But it does look like Dietrichs have
problems to handle models that consists of a large amount of items - and
perhaps also models that consists of very big items. With the latter I
am thinking about, if I make a 3D model of the building and its
surrounding area - with large areas of gras, roads and such big
"ceilings" - plus big "walls", that are made to illustrate the sky. But
I think the main problem with the software is the amount of items in a
3D model that it can handle fluently and perhaps the amount of
"computerpower" the program takes advantage of. A limit of 2 GB Ram is
very old fashioned today, for example. It should be unlimited, so that
the faster and the more powerful the computer is, the better the program
will run on that computer.
My best and kind regards, Thorvald.
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Med de venligste hilsener
Thorvald.
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Thorvald
Guld medlem
Oprettet: 23-April-2004
Sted: Denmark
Status: Offline
Point: 7981
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Sendt: 25-Maj-2011 kl. 06:46 |
For nu lige at følge det lidt op. Det var det
jeg gættede på, med disse "small" tubes - se lidt senere. Herunder
svar fra Dietrichs: Dear Thorvald,
The Dietrich’s
software has improved its performance (including the OpenGL-display) with every
new update. In the case of the position you sent, it is a fact, that it simply
contains to many parts to be visualized in 3d at the same time.
The program uses 3
GB of the RAM including network adresses and the graphic board. That leaves (on
my PC) around 2.6 RAM for the program calculation itsself. Without serious and
fundamental changes in the programming of the software that is the limit. What can
improve the performance as well, is a higher frequency of the processor. With a
higher frequency, the calculation speed improves.
What I was trying to
say with " a large number of small tubes has the same object-type and
MOS-number than other wall parts" was, that if you try to reduce the displayed parts by these
small parts (item numbers: maxit pipe Ø60, rod 16+24+30 mm, armature 25 mm) in
“display style” you have to untick the box for “beams / profiled beams” in the
area walls. That blanks the other wall parts as well. If the small parts had
e.g. an own MOS number, they could easily be blanked with function “Building
MOS”. That way it would be easier to organise and reduce the parts of this
building by only displaying what is actually needed at the moment.
We remain at your disposal for any further information.
Kind regards,
Florian Strauß
Dietrich’s
AG
3D
CAD/CAM for timber construction
-+ please also visit our web forum: http://user.dietrichs.com
Disse
"small" tubes ses på nedenstående billeder og er som sagt primært
samlingsdetaljer for betonelementerne:
Hvis jeg
aktiverer dem og lægger dem i deres eget lag, så det er nemt at slukke for dem
og hvis jeg tager tyndplade C-profilerne, der udgør væggene i de 21 prefab
baderum lægger dem i deres eget lag og slukker for dem, samt slukker for
nederste etage (parkerings kælderen): Så har jeg stadig problemer med at vise
3D modellen. Den kan, men ikke med korrekt rendering - selv med
"hidden" rendering kan den ikke lige nu. Hvis jeg derimod slukker for
alt træ og kun viser pladebeklædninger osv. er det ikke noget problem. Der er
simpelthen for mange stykker træ i modellen for programmet. Men det synes jeg
er lidt dårligt - selvom det er en forholdsvist stor model med 21 lejligheder.
Men har jeg ikke ret i at det er Dietrichs, der skal tilpasse deres program til
at kunne klare nogle større modeller - og ikke mig der skal tilpasse mig til
hvad programmet kan. Computerkraft har jeg jo nok af - i hvert fald nu. Herunder
nogle billeder som det lykkedes mig at lave på den gamle computer:
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Med de venligste hilsener
Thorvald.
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Ny computer - ikke meget bedre OpenGL performance.